Saturday, May 13, 2006

PC and Wikipedia

A few weeks ago members of PKMN.NET tried to get the site posted to Wikipedia. In doing so, unfortunately, they received a remark from the staff that it disgraced them to have an article about them written poorly and with emphasis on partial commentator opinion. The page was removed within a few days.

Later I have seen that the Pokémon Community is going through something similar in fashion. As was seen in the Pokémon Community's Daily Chit-Chat, Digital Phoenix, a banned member, had created the article from the get-go and filled it with content that attacked the administration. Immediately others came in and added their leftist views, and soon afterward the page was open to deletion. (One moderator I contacted, who has requested anonymity, was able to determine him as the original author of the article and the author of the comment to my rant about the Community, partly due to his trademark contempt and his having been a moderator in the past.)

At first I thought the marquee was enough to bring this out, but now I see that this extends well beyond the fact that the forum has received unwarranted space on Wikipedia. I have seen Paul try to be banned once more by agreeing with the revisions of the article (thanks to Chibi-chan for clarifying that) that the moderators' judgement was to blame for a bad reputation. Unfortunately, this has only caused the moderators to show their more respectable side as people that exist to keep the Community glued together. Yet, unlike the PKMN.NET admins have (yes, I still believe this, even after seven months of clemency), they haven't ever had the intentions of making themselves targets because of political affinities. That's where the spam traffic going between both forums start to divide; we have Richard Mansfield trying to recruit Blue Mew into spamming on PKMN.NET, whereas spam (the DCC notwithstanding) on the Pokémon Community is not as prominent.

It's strange to see that one member, whom James would say resembles me in the respect, will go out of his way to try to unmask the forum for bias. Wikipedia entries are definitely not the way to do it; posting such would only cause a far worse reputation for theposter than any decrease in reputation for the afflicted forum. I wonder if a similar attempt has been made for SPP?

Update: Below is the inquiry into the matter:

Blue says:
There
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Eh?
Who would David be?
Blue says:
Axel
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Oh....Hello there.
Let me guess, you decided to introduce me?
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I'm a ghost >o
Sorry bout that, I'm a little exhausted. It's kinda getting to me
Anyways, hey
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Oh, so why did you want to speak to me? Is this about Wikipedia?
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Not really, I'm trying not to worry too much about it. You just seem like an interesting person to talk to
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Ah.
Well, I have to say that you lot have the right idea once again....
But to be honest, I never expected the article to be this hot....
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I just can't stand banned members, of all people, critisizing us. XD
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
So Jorge, you haven't registered your opinion on the matter yourself....And you were around for the article being spawned....
Blue says:
To be honest, I don't really care about their opinion if that's how they're going to act on the matter. So I see no reason for me to waste time replying to childish insults.
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Ah, I see.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Oh sure, make me sound irrational >>
Blue says:
Can do
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Well, I have his assurance that he agrees with me, at the very least.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I'd like to ignore them, but it's just come to the point where It's hard
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
I even discussed with another mod the possibility of having an inquiry into possible bias.
Blue says:
It was easy for me not to ignore them when I first became staff and it happened all the time. After a while though, you learn that a lot of these people really are just bitter.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I owe too much to the community in its members to let it take insults like that
and its*
I guess in some sense, we're being bias ourselves, since we're being attacked by them
Blue says:
Not really
If you can look at it from an unbiased POV, then you can admit your own faults, but a lot of what they're saying isn't true.
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
That's why I was thinking of an inquiry. get to the bottom of the matter and see what drove them to believe that you lot were biased.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
A lot of the members in their group are banned members who got themselves on the bad side of the staff. However, they break obvious rules and then claim we ban them because we dislike the,
them*
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Still, I need to know what the initial offences were before I make a judgement.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
It'd be hard to track down every single thing again
Plus we aren't aware exactly who is on their side
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
We can at least start with Shinin, Saniigo, and Dakota.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Shinin was a loooong looong time ago. I dont know if his offences are even recorded. Oo
Saniigo just asked to be demoted and started spamming everywhere
As for the reason, we are still unaware
Blue says:
Dakota's is a loooong story
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I'm still not even sure what'd up with Dakota. Oo
what's* I am having a horrible typo night
Blue says:
Basically
It started about a year ago
He was become too inactive and when he was on, he wasn't modding, and hardly posted. When he did post, it was really on the spammy side. Eventually he was warned for messing with the user titles in the admin CP. He kept saying he messed up and didn't mean for it to effect all the members, but it did and the fact still stands that he shouldn't have done it. Then he was warned by a former admin, Claire, for general spamming. Then the nail in the coffin for him as a staff member came when it was decided that he was far too inactive and wasn't contributing enough to PC.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
was becoming*
Blue says:
Yeah
After that, he flamed Claire a lot because the two used to be paired and something happened to him that made him think nothing that happens online matters at all. He was warned again for that, but for some reason he thought he could work himself back up to the S-Mod rank. All the higher staff said no to his remodding, so he got mad and said that we backstabbed him and should have at least told him he was up for demotion. Someone said that he needed no warning and that someone who's been at PC for nearly four years should know by now what should and shouldn't be posted. So then he flamed some more, got himself banned. Said the banning was unjust, when he was unbanned...he got himself rebanned pretty fast. He evaded which lead to him getting his original ban time of two months doubled to four months. A bit before his ban was to be lifted, he was saying that the moment he got back to PC, he was going to mass spam. He didn't, but he flamed and that was basically it for him.
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
So we're never seeing him again.
I never liked him myself. Ignorant ass.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Chances are, no. I'm pretty sure if he didn't learn his lesson after 2 bans, he certainly wont change
Yeah, he was quite ignorant
Anything else you'd like to know?
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Do you believe he could have coaxed the other people into making these remarks?
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
No, he doesn't talk with many people. These ideas came from a totally different source
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
I just thought that he would be the only one to trip across the blog, since I have a huge link to it in the sig.
Blue says:
Ty's already said why he did what he did. Paul's just bitter about being banned.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Ty gave reasons?
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Second time for Paul, isn't it?
Well, I think it was Signomi that told me that Ty was the culprit.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
He created the originally wiki thing, yes
Blue says:
David, yeah. He basically said that a lot of his friends were making fun of him for being banned from PC and stopped talking to him for that reason
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
...so?
Blue says:
So...he was kinda pissed
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
And tripped over into the hole again.
Blue says:
Basically

Sothe「サザ」 was added to this conversation. Handwriting is no longer supported because not all participants can view handwritten messages. Handwritten messages will be sent as text.

Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
All right, Jake wants his say.
Blue says:
Though the way he said it did make me feel bad for him
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Yo, Jake
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
We got into the Dakota incident.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
He's pretty... silent
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
That's odd....
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Maybe australia sink into the ocean...
sunk*
Sothe「サザ」 says:
Sorry. XD
Dakota incident?
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
There goes another theory of mine out the window...
Sothe「サザ」 says:
I want America, or at least Washington D.C. to sink. D:
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
...washington is pretty far inland to sink... XD
Sothe「サザ」 says:
I know. D:
Blue says:
Hey! I live in America!
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
But me and Jake don't =D
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
So do I, and I should be concerned due to the fact that I'm on an island.
Blue says:
Can't wait for people to bomb Australia and Canada...
Sothe「サザ」 says:
o_O
Jorge! D:
So "what" about Dakota?
Blue says:
Canada's easy, all you need is two water guns and you've doubled their military power
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Who would bomb Canada? We're worthless, other than the oil in Alberta D=
Which America will probably tap...
Blue says:
...that sounded so wrong
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
...
Sothe「サザ」 says:
Jorge, you have a dirty mind. D:
Blue says:
Yes, yes I do
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Only you could make a conversation about oil sound wrong
Blue says:
You said tap!
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
...
Sothe「サザ」 says:
And living on an island is evil, Crystal Walrein.
Blue says:
I need sleep
Sothe「サザ」 says:
Jorge, you find all the excuses in the world. XD
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
No, he's always either tired or sick when he screws up. XD
Sothe「サザ」 says:
First saying that one said "tap", then saying you need sleep. D:
Blue says:
I screwed up? XD
Even if I had sleep, I'd still say what I said XD
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Anyways, back on topic
Love how that just killed the conversation...
Sothe「サザ」 says:
What were we talking about?
Because I'm unclear.
So, I decided to be quiet.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
Crystal Walrein is inquiring as to why the anti-staff may think us to be bias
Sothe「サザ」 says:
Ah.
Well, most of them are banned.
Blue says:
...
And that's basically all you ever need to know.
Sothe「サザ」 says:
Our policies are less strict to accommodate such opinion holders, but they still take it too far anyway.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
It's the more obvious reason, but there are probably others we aren't aware of
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Which is what concerns me.
I think this staff can pat themselves for a job well done, but I still need to see what went on behind these members being removed....
Because all I see is that the banned members are accusing the mods of hypocrisy and people like Paul and Dakota being banned....
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
well, the wiki page was finally deleted
Sothe「サザ」 says:
Members are banned for reasons. Most of them like to call us **** for small moves and such.
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
It was?
/me checks
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
yup
Sothe「サザ」 says:
It should've ended in a week.
Ah well.
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
So Steve finally did something for once....Or maybe the dissidence was too great....
Sothe「サザ」 says:
I guess ending it early was okay.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
It was 98% Delete anyways
Sothe「サザ」 says:
There was doubt the two days would accommodate more againsts than that?
Guys, remember to "search for PokeCommunity" to stumble across any revenge articles.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I still don't understand why they accuse us of hypocrisy...
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
I had a word with Steve when he was planning to revise the article to make it less biased, but I think I convinced him to turn his back on it.
Sothe「サザ」 says:
[. . .]
Articles on PC have been deleted 3 times. Inclusive of the recent one.
Ironically, none of them have PC's proper name.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
XD
Sothe「サザ」 says:
"PokéCommunity", not "PokeCommunity".
*poke*community? XD
Crystal Walrein — Now a blood donor (and a SuperCheats administrator)! says:
Haha, you'd think that they'd try to disguise the article as such.
(-David Eddy- New bus: 18S-) - Moving tomorrow says:
I'm just going to grab a snack
Sothe「サザ」 says:
I don't think people even know how to type the darn é.
Update: As stated accordingly above, Chibi-chan has told me that Paul himself was not involved in the creation of the article and that his ban was attributed to his defence of the statement only. I regret the error.

13 comments:

Anthony Jake La said...

I guess it would be fair to comment. I'm a common Wikipedian and an Esperanzian, and I feel I have a fair knowledge of "notable articles" and such. PC does not cover notability, hence my nomination. PC is a fan forum, so is SPPF. Do I feel the forums are credible and broad enough to warrant an article detailing the little aspects they want? No.

Anthony Jake La said...

Oh, and allow me to reiterate on something - Cody, another banned moderator, created the page. Ty simply spawned a lot of the page's NPOV-violating content. Honestly, I couldn't care less about PC when it comes to Wikipedia. >>;

Shinin said...

I would have done what Digital Phoenix did. In 2004, all the old moderators and super moderators either got banned or left and they needed moderators, so people became mods based on their popularity, and some mods had barely joined the community. Many veterans of PC, including me and a friend of mine, left or got ourselves banned.

One of these noobish mods is Jorge, who is an administrator, though he may have left or been banned, or just changed his username. Dakota, who was a moderator once but wasn't, was banned recently, and I assume because he realized he was a mindless drone to the staff.

The Pokemon Community has fallen to the noobs, and cannot be fixed. It is too late to save it. If only the original administrators would wake up and make real veterans mods.

Axel said...

In response to Shinin:

I'd love to see more PC vets on the staff team. However, most of them are stuck up idiots who've lost sight of what's important.

Mods modded based on popularity? I doubt it. I've seen plenty of members modded whom are disliked by most, and are modded because they actually have knowledge in their area.

Your perspective of what a n00b is can change. For example, you see Jorge as a 'noob', yet right now I'm seeing YOU as a n00b. If PC was put into the hands of people like you, it would surely fall to pieces.

Axel said...

Crud, forgot my actual thoughts on the wiki matter. ><;

Well, I think it really shouldn't be there, as it's a purely biased opinion, not to mention our forums aren't worthy enough for wiki itself.

It isn't worth being there if all its going to be used for is negative comments posted by banned members. =/

And sorry for going off on you, Shinin, it's just that I have to defend what I feel is right.

Lily said...

Getting banned is purely the user's choice, so why all the fuss? Having said the forum is run by 'n00bs' is a biased, unfair reason. Shinin only proved the obvious: he doesn't want PC to change and still harbors negativity (like many banned/former members/staff out there)...After all, PC is one of many forums; life goes on.

Either way, what an interesting article!

Shinin said...

In response to Axel:

The vets are "stuck up idiots" because PC has gotten out of control with idiot moderators and administrators, along with legions of noobs, and we're disappointed in what it ended up becoming. Even one of the members who ended up becoming an administrator, Kairi, was banned for insulting some other staff members because of disagreement and enragement.

I can remember at least one person who was made a moderator, with popularity being a great influence. There was someone who was in a band and publicized it all over PC, and lots of people, including several moderators, were acting like "ZOMG UR IN TEH BAND UR SO COOL."

If veterans such as me were put in command of PC, it wouldn't fall apart. We know what was best for PC in the past and would use that knowledge for the good of PC. And Jorge is an idiot, he banned me for an idiotic reason (calling people who request sprites "lazy").

You joined in 2004, when this all started. I joined in 2002. What was your username prior to changing it? I may remember you.

Blue said...

No, the vets think their time at PC somehow gives them a free pass to act like idiots. I'm sorry if we actually have to enforce our rules now that PC is larger. You were banned for flaming and you just don't want to take responsibility for your mistakes so you'd rather blame it on our "incompetence." Abby was banned for breaking rules and has since been unbanned, she got the ban she deserved.

I can recall one mod who was modded on popularity, I had no part in that and she was demodded once the two people that wanted her modded realized the mistake they made. Aside from that mod, no one has ever been modded on popularity and you've never been on PC staff, you have no idea how we run things, so don't act like you do.

And let me stop you right here, no, if PC was in your hands, it would never change. It would still be the small forum that it used to be. The forum grew so we needed more mods and more rules. I don't get why you think PC is falling apart, we get more posts each and every day, we get tons of new members every day. The only people that think it's falling apart are the ones that don't like change and can't get their way anymore. If PC was in your hands, then it would fall apart. You are one of the most incompetent, egotistical and arrogant members that PC has ever had the misfortune of having join. You have absolutely no idea how to successfully run a forum, you have no idea how to run a staff that works well together and that for the most part members enjoy being around.

If PC was ever falling apart, it's because people like you think they know how to run the board based on your seniority.

Anthony Jake La said...

Preposterous to your own belief, Shinin. Your position, your time at the community, does not constitute for whether you will be a moderator at the community or not. I also think you should provide rationale for why Jorge is "n00bish".

I also want you to provide rationale to how the community has "fallen to the n00bs", so you say. Or, is the rationale "You were banned by a staff member because you flamed"? And, whatever happened with Kairi, internal to the staff, is none of your business.

As a staff administrator, where my time lies at November 29, 2002, I know what's going on. Do note that from recent reformations of staff policies, we do not ban for as many the reason you have stated. However, I do debate your right to speak out in such a manner. Considering your warnings from moderators (not following the current warning system) about things like putting down the deceased Mandi, and having viewed your comments like "Stop being idiot Nintendo fanboys (or fangirls)." and "I hate ALL OF YOU!", THEN your constant ban evasions and your immature "congratulations" for us finding out your evading accounts, why should you be given control over the community?

Shinin said...

I don't remember saying "I hate ALL OF YOU!" I said things like "Stop being idiot Nintendo fanboys (or fangirls)." because I had been hanging around GameFAQs for a while. And I didn't put Mandi down, I just said that I didn't care because I didn't know her. If some random person died who you don't know, would you care? I admit I should've kept it to myself, but I was an idiot then. Even more so than now. My actions in the past were quite idiotic.

I suppose I've lost. I'm an idiot who only sees what I think is there, though I have my own reasons for some things. Good day to you sir.

Arcanine said...

I just got a few things to say to you Shinin. As an old PC member (a vet, and more of a vet then you) and as one of the oldest Staff members on PC (me and Erica are the last two Staff on PC that was Staff on the old PC) I got to say you're wrong.
From your point of view vets should be on the Staff and should be above everyone else. I do love talking to Erica, Jake, 22sa and others about the old PC, ones like David or Kaga wouldn't understand because they weren't there. But your point of view on vets is screwed up. They shouldn't be treated any differently (infact they should know the rules better then anyone else), they shouldn't be Modded just because they are a vet, they shouldn't be above the rules because they are a vet. From my Staff votes so many Staff have come and gone, and many have become great Staff and many have been both new and old members. You don't know how Moddings take place, you think we Mod just because so and so is well known. Well the fact is we DON'T (I should know seeing how I've been Staff almost 3 years and been an SA longer then anyone else). We didn't Mod David in the RP forums because he was popular, we Modded him because he was good at what he did. Same with all the other Staff we've had. You may think we Mod mainly on friends with the Staff but that's totally wrong.
Sure we got lots of n00bs on PC (none of them n00bs are in the Staff I might add), but the fact is if you were Staff you couldn't help it no more then we can. PC is a very very large forum and n00bs tend to go to large forums.
So if you know nothing about PC then you need not to say something about it (in other words: Shut up Shinin).
Stop living in the past, I liked the old PC better (how members were close, how Staff were respected, n00bs were rare) then the new one. But the fact is things change, nothing stays the same forever. The past should be talked about among ones who's been there and ones having questions and that sort of stuff. The past shouldn't be there to be lived in. You Shinin are living the the past, you're living in the old PC. And if you're going to yap about your ban or yap about the Staff or yap about PC then you can keep it to yourself. Because I don't think anyone gives a flip on what you think. Because you're already too messed up to know anything about PC. So if you want to live in the past or hate PC then keep it to yourself.

Shinin said...

You are correct. I must leave the past. Half of me already has, the other half wasn't until today. Now I must leave.

Anonymous said...

People are modded and demodded based on popularity, usually. Now I must say that sometimes people are de/modded based on their actual credentials and how good they are in their area...but this is rare. You guys can't counter this argument by simply saying "No we DON'T!!" because that's bull. My basis for my argument is that I've been a staffer longer (or as long) as anyone here and I've seen everyone get modded and demodded. To be honest, they didn't start start doing it as much until recently. But people aren't allowed to say these things on PC because that would imply that the staff has faults, which is highly banworthy.

~D